High key, maybe look at Gerhard Schröder for the same thing. His ceding of sovereignty over Germany's energy infrastructure and subsequent board seat at Gazprom is a flashing red siren.
Or Merkel for pushing 'green' russian gas. And all traitors who destroy LOCAL coal industry.
Europe has several gas, oil and coal fields (like Netherlands). We are just not allowed to use them!!! We must depend on hostile foreigners, like Putin, Trump and Saudis!!!
Maybe look at Ukraine stealing transit gas which was one of the reasons for Nord Stream. And collecting Russian transit money until 2025, long after they blew up Nord Stream.
But it is great that Germany now has more expensive "sovereign" US gas and the fallback Qatar was sabotaged in the Iran war. Great independence.
I've seen an uptick online of russian proxies informing the EU nations their supreme national interest is in cheap energy, and nevermind funding a 1900s conquest on their doorstep.
> Documents supplied to the Hamburg court indicated that Hanning was the go-between with the Israelis. According to media reports, these Hamburg court documents contained clues to his other business activity with classified BND information.
Are you sure it says that? As far as I can see it only says he dealt with Israeli ex-spies in an (unrelated) kidnapping and that he was friendly with Israeli spies.
Actually the even more fun part is that they only found out because they raided his house due to this really sketchy case he was contracted for via his really sketcy swiss(!) private eye company: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/20/germany-christ...
“Among several alleged accomplices are August Hanning, a former head of Germany’s federal intelligence service, the BND, who according to prosecutors forged the initial contact between Block and the Israeli spy firm believed to have carried out the abduction.”
The connection to the current case may actually be a more direct one, via the Israeli spies.
As a geopolitical nerd, I've consumed a lot of non-fiction espionage content. In general, there's a general theme that German intelligence is a joke at best. He must have gotten too greedy or very lazy/sloppy.
i'm not qualified to pass any judgement here, just Wirecard comes to mind. Routing sensitive payments, including to the network of secret informants, through Wirecard while the Wirecard guy (son of a KGB spy) was safari-ing (and posting photos of it) in Syria with the Wagner mercenaries... He lives right now in Russia, and it looks like German intelligence hasn't exacted any revenge.
Name one EU country's intelligence service that has a reputation, any reputation - good or bad. European intelligence services (ex-Russia/Ukraine) are a bunch of jokers. They are lagging behind so much vs their adversarial peers.
> Name one EU country's intelligence service that has a reputation, any reputation - good or bad. European intelligence services (ex-Russia/Ukraine) are a bunch of jokers. They are lagging behind so much vs their adversarial peers.
MI5/MI6 (unless you literally mean the European Union). They benefit from Five Eyes, though.
The French system is considered quite good, but focused on the Middle East and Africa. It's actually quite capable, considering how independent minded they are, often refusing cooperation with others. Though their intelligence quality can vary outside those core areas.
The Dutch are quite highly regarded and punch above their weight. The AIVD got inside the Russian Gozy Bear hacking group and the MIVD also caught the GRU trying to hack the OPCW in The Hague - even exposing their taxi receipts.
The Nordic states are known to have capable services that operate quietly, especially focused on Russia. The Finns especially.
The Baltic states also take it seriously, obviously focused on Russia.
TL;DR there are many capable intelligence agencies working in the EU, but they're usually much smaller and focused. Also - they usually prefer to NOT be in the limelight.
I meant the EU. Obviously including MI5 is kinda cheating.
The French are too myopic around the Middle East and Africa. They don't have any visibility into, say, Russia, even though Russia is asymmetrically embedded into them. That's an example of the problem they, and most others, face - they can't adapt rapidly to changing trends in the global scene.
I still remember the disaster that is January 2022. The US was continually stating that the Russians were planning an invasion, based on CIA intelligence, yet in the lead-up to the war, literally every EU country was calling the US a warmonger. And now with the US becoming increasingly hostile to the EU, the EU countries have been completely blindsided by that too.
And let's not forget, no Western nation has any reasonable intelligence presence in Israel, the culprit here, except for maybe the US and UK. Israel enjoys a disproportionate amount of intelligence asymmetry vs them.
There is no evidence of Mossad involvement. Far from me to defend Israel's spy agency but the article only mentions a possible connection to Azerbaijan.
This one doesn't since it's a US outlet and they don't have free speech in the US, on Israel-related matters. The Irish Times reported the Israel connection though.
The Irish Times reported an Israel connection regarding a separate case involving him, the Block Scandal. As far as I am aware that case did not involve giving out state secrets to other governments. This article mentions Der Spiegel which reported the investigation on the possible Azerbaijan connection.
That's not a thing. What triggers moderation and/or banning is when accounts break the site guidelines by going into political/nationalistic/ideological flamewar, as they unfortunately often do on divisive topics.
I think the problem is better stated as a large flagging contingent, rather than anything intrinsic to the site's code or official moderation. And the real problem is that it has an outsized chilling effect on substantive comments, which require putting in actual effort just to possibly be killed. From what I've observed comments/stories get a penalty from flags (before they actually end up [dead]) and this seems to be the actual objective - to stymie concrete discussion while a topic is popular.
Someone downvoted you, but if you do look at the sweatshirt sales webpage, it does say this
"Licensor: Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), the German Foreign Intelligence Service
The BND logo is a registered trademark of the Bundesnachrichtendienst in Berlin, Germany. The BND is not involved in the operation, production, or sale of these products and accepts no liability. The BND does not receive any revenue from the BND Shop."
In 2013 he was a defence witness for the oligarch Oleg Deripaska who was then tied to Putin. He was also on the board of companies such as PNB Banka (operated by a Russian Grigory Guselnikov). Also connections to many shady "security consulting" firms, among them "Prevent" who were suspected to have planted child porn with a manager of HSH-Nordbank. Incidentally child porn was also planted with the husband of Christina Block in Denmark, a case in which Hanning is also involved.
On the angle of Azerbaijan who allegedly bought Hanning's secrets it's interesting that in the past there were several court cases about corruption against German politicians. It's summarised in the so called Aserbaidschan-Affäre (Azerbaijan Affair) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aserbaidschan-Aff%C3%A4re
One of the things you eventually learn is how important it is to understand how the media reports on a story. Not only what they say and how they say it but also what they don't say.
In this case, the reporting I've seen on this doesn't mention the country that he was allegedly spying for. That means it was Israel. Because if it was any other country, particularly Russia, it would absolutely be blasted from the rooftops.
It's honestly depressing how captured institutions, the media and Western governments are by the Israeli lobby. My only hope is that history will correctly label all those involved as collaborators.
Let me give an example: Jonathon Pollard [1], who was responsible for one the largest national security breaches in American history and was tried and convicted for espionage. This was a sticking point where basically every Israeli PM would ask for his release. No president would do it until Trump on his first day of his second term [2].
Trump mega-donor Sheldon Adelson lent Pollard his private plane [3] for his return to Israel where he was given a hero's welcome [4]. He's since met with the Israeli PM and even invited into the US Embassy in Israel [5].
Beyond spies, even Israelis are aware that Israel has become a refuge for the worst kinds of criminals [6].
We don’t know what country he was spying for, but we do know it’s not Russia.
From the very short article:
> The case does not involve Russia, according to information obtained by Sueddeutsche Zeitung.
And that's probably why Israel is allied with everyone. They have such good spies, they have endless blackmail material for politicians.
For instance, it's suspected that Epstein worked for Israel to acquire blackmail material. We know Epstein recorded everything that happened on that island, and not secretly.
Most of Europe and especially Germany; and Oceania; and half the gulf states. And that's just the places I know of, because the news about them is in English.
It’s not sympathy so much with Russia, more of a complete distrust of US-led causes for war.
The US has betrayed a lot of humanity with the catastrophic wars it has fought since 2003. But in Europe, the results are very, very clear: many Europeans actually have the temerity to establish relations with the refugees who have been arriving for decades now, and through that contact, seek to understand that the world is being kept at war needlessly.
Many Western observers tend to miss the fact that there was a period between the end of the cold war and the beginning of the Ukraine conflict where Europeans were kind of glad to have peace in Europe - like actually with Russia being considered a part of the European community, where after years of distrust, peaceful relations between Europe and Russia were actually kind of happening.
This has all gone to /dev/null now, but there is still an unheard/heavily censored group of European citizens - in pretty much all of Europes’ western sphere - who simply would prefer to establish peaceful relations with Russia, and go back to actually flourishing and prospering.
Oh, and ending all wars on the Middle East, so the refugees from the US’ wars can rebuild their countries and go back home. Some day. Maybe.
Of course you won’t hear about them much, but if you pay close attention in the cafes and bars and riverside grills, you will hear them: many Europeans do actually believe in and want peace and simply don’t think the current crop of leaders are capable of it. So they express this not as sympathy with Russia, but as a willingness to effect the political change necessary to avoid catastrophe.
> It’s not sympathy so much with Russia, more of a complete distrust of US-led causes for war.
The ex-DDR folk has nothing to do with this. They literally want a tzar and claim the life was better in DDR (translate: got stuff for free, didn't have to do much).
Europe, and indeed Germany, is so much more than ex-DDR.
There are plenty of ex-DDR folks who think we should just get on with the war and start annihilating everyone from Dresden to Kamchatka, too.
Alas, the challenge for those who want peace is to get those who see only war to sit down and shut up for a while. Germans are actually good at that when they want to be.
Yeah, the only problem is that you can't really establish a lasting peace with a government that is more interested in land grabbing, and turning its neighbors into vassal states.
If Europe gives in to Russia in Ukraine, anyone with basic understanding of history can see that they'll turn their attention towards Baltics, Moldova and maybe Finland and Poland. Putin doesn't want to return those "good years" between cold war and Ukraine conflict, he wants to return to the glory days of Cold War when Russia (Soviet Union) was a real superpower.
Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.
On the other hand, if you think history is the only guide for humans to follow, Europe will self-implode before Russia gets there, anyway.
Fortunately, there are growing segments of European society who actually want to have a bright and prosperous future. This doesn’t happen with war - it happens by making sure your neighbors are well fed, too.
They want to see a return of peaceful relations between Europe and Russia, and unfortunately that would in fact mean addressing the injustices and crimes of the Ukrainian conflict - this cannot occur, while those crimes are still being committed.
But many Europeans don’t believe that Russia is going to be defeated, nor that the Donetsk->Crimea corridor is worth igniting the rest of Europe over. The most common refrain I hear, is that portion of Ukraine should have independence and neutrality, like Austria. How this is to be attained, of course nobody knows, but it is very definitely a common refrain.
From what I see here it’s a mixture of anti-Americanism, „Ostslgie“ (the longing for the good old times of the DDR, a feeling often inherited from parents) and a crap ton of Russian propaganda that floods social media.
Combine this with a step economic decline and voila you got the perfect conditions for autocratic sympathies
I would not say it's many but certainly there are some. I found it surprising that in recent sabotage or spy cases in Germany there were often Ukrainian or Latvian accomplices to the Russians. But then again it's obvious that not all Ukrainians have the same opinion about the war.
Similar to why there's a significant fraction of pro-mainland China people in Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Reasons include people who benefitted from the Soviet Union, often due to business and trade. Analogy would be Foxconn, a Taiwanese company which is dependent on manufacturing in China.
Nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses/rosy retrospection, Ostalgie in German.
Families that were ethnically from Russia, moved during the Soviet Union times and still have ties to Russia.
The former East Germany is way more pro-Russian than the former West Germany, showing the effects of these factors.
Some part of the population was subject to 60 years of continuous propaganda. That's three generations. You might say people should be able to see beyond that, but the ones influencing them were professionals too.
There are obviously people throughout the western world (including East Germany) who are sympathizers of Russia well beyond just buying energy from them. Pretty sure GP is referring to those people.
There are just people who like Russian ballet and then the CIA. So long as you do not wish to recreate the Warsaw Pact, then you are not a sympathizer but just a Very Normal German
Your provided evidence of LaRouche being a CIA front is an article in which the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency orders the DIA to stop interacting with them for fear of them being a Russian front?
> Graham recalled that LaRouche associates came up with what he called good intelligence about the situation in Angola, Mozambique and elsewhere. Graham said that in the mid-1970s, he and DIA colleagues concluded that some of the information was so sensitive that they suspected the LaRouche group was getting some of it from the Soviets or another government. Graham added that he couldn't prove the contention
Hmm... what's more likely: Russian sympathizing group with connections to Russia and advocating Russian positions and disseminating intelligence of likely-Russian origin is... Russia-aligned?
No no, it must be CIA-aligned because umm... they gave info to the CIA. There are no conceivable reasons that a truly Russia-sympathizing group would want to give the CIA information, right? Lmfao
> Can someone please explain what's going on here?
Putin got'em addicted to cheap Russian gas and paid up anti nuclear NGOs who also got cash from big oil.
Also Berlin still has some Russian minority since the GDR. That includes anti Putin Russian diaspora or people that just needed a break from paranoia and brespredel.
There's a certain subset of every population that just wants to be dominated. Some of these people don't have the courage to ask their romantic partner or a professional, so they try to realize their kink through political means.
High key, maybe look at Gerhard Schröder for the same thing. His ceding of sovereignty over Germany's energy infrastructure and subsequent board seat at Gazprom is a flashing red siren.
No, the thing he was arrested for is having classified documents in his possession.
Or Merkel for pushing 'green' russian gas. And all traitors who destroy LOCAL coal industry.
Europe has several gas, oil and coal fields (like Netherlands). We are just not allowed to use them!!! We must depend on hostile foreigners, like Putin, Trump and Saudis!!!
Maybe look at Ukraine stealing transit gas which was one of the reasons for Nord Stream. And collecting Russian transit money until 2025, long after they blew up Nord Stream.
But it is great that Germany now has more expensive "sovereign" US gas and the fallback Qatar was sabotaged in the Iran war. Great independence.
I've seen an uptick online of russian proxies informing the EU nations their supreme national interest is in cheap energy, and nevermind funding a 1900s conquest on their doorstep.
Thankfully, the Europeans aren't stupid.
In my country, they posted the news translated as: 'Spy chief is detained in counts of espionage'
I just wanted to share the journalism pearl.
Well at least he paid for it and did not outright steal it :)
Any idea which foreign country he was spying for?
Mossad/Israel at least:
> Documents supplied to the Hamburg court indicated that Hanning was the go-between with the Israelis. According to media reports, these Hamburg court documents contained clues to his other business activity with classified BND information.
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2026/10/06/former-ge...
Where there’s smoke there’s fire, and western intelligence precedent (eg russian “illegals program”) is that when it’s Russia/China, it’s named.
So the omission here itself (and denial of Russia) is some additional speculative information, on top of his already known ties to Mossad.
Are you sure it says that? As far as I can see it only says he dealt with Israeli ex-spies in an (unrelated) kidnapping and that he was friendly with Israeli spies.
with friends like these…
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Spiegel says Azerbaijan.
> Hanning is strongly suspected of treasonous espionage, attempted treason, and espionage.
Well that clears that up.
Is anyone else shocked that the head spy was a spy, or that Germany was being blackmailed by Mossad?
Actually the even more fun part is that they only found out because they raided his house due to this really sketchy case he was contracted for via his really sketcy swiss(!) private eye company: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/20/germany-christ...
“Among several alleged accomplices are August Hanning, a former head of Germany’s federal intelligence service, the BND, who according to prosecutors forged the initial contact between Block and the Israeli spy firm believed to have carried out the abduction.”
The connection to the current case may actually be a more direct one, via the Israeli spies.
As a geopolitical nerd, I've consumed a lot of non-fiction espionage content. In general, there's a general theme that German intelligence is a joke at best. He must have gotten too greedy or very lazy/sloppy.
The CIA actually build the Gehlen Org (now BND) from some ex-Nazis as spy's against the communists. Is all a very sad joke.[0]
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jun/08/secondworldwar...
"If you want to tell Putin something, say it to the BND" is more or less known in that context.
>German intelligence is a joke at best
i'm not qualified to pass any judgement here, just Wirecard comes to mind. Routing sensitive payments, including to the network of secret informants, through Wirecard while the Wirecard guy (son of a KGB spy) was safari-ing (and posting photos of it) in Syria with the Wagner mercenaries... He lives right now in Russia, and it looks like German intelligence hasn't exacted any revenge.
Neither has anybody else towards any individual living in "run away to Russia" street.
TBF, Jan Marsalek (the Wirecard guy) is Austrian, although Wirecard was a German company.
Name one EU country's intelligence service that has a reputation, any reputation - good or bad. European intelligence services (ex-Russia/Ukraine) are a bunch of jokers. They are lagging behind so much vs their adversarial peers.
Didn't European intelligence services warn US of specifics of 9/11?
The French have a reputation. And the British although they are part of Europe, not the EU.
Maybe that's what they want you to think.
> Name one EU country's intelligence service that has a reputation, any reputation - good or bad. European intelligence services (ex-Russia/Ukraine) are a bunch of jokers. They are lagging behind so much vs their adversarial peers.
MI5/MI6 (unless you literally mean the European Union). They benefit from Five Eyes, though.
The French system is considered quite good, but focused on the Middle East and Africa. It's actually quite capable, considering how independent minded they are, often refusing cooperation with others. Though their intelligence quality can vary outside those core areas.
The Dutch are quite highly regarded and punch above their weight. The AIVD got inside the Russian Gozy Bear hacking group and the MIVD also caught the GRU trying to hack the OPCW in The Hague - even exposing their taxi receipts.
The Nordic states are known to have capable services that operate quietly, especially focused on Russia. The Finns especially.
The Baltic states also take it seriously, obviously focused on Russia.
TL;DR there are many capable intelligence agencies working in the EU, but they're usually much smaller and focused. Also - they usually prefer to NOT be in the limelight.
I meant the EU. Obviously including MI5 is kinda cheating.
The French are too myopic around the Middle East and Africa. They don't have any visibility into, say, Russia, even though Russia is asymmetrically embedded into them. That's an example of the problem they, and most others, face - they can't adapt rapidly to changing trends in the global scene.
I still remember the disaster that is January 2022. The US was continually stating that the Russians were planning an invasion, based on CIA intelligence, yet in the lead-up to the war, literally every EU country was calling the US a warmonger. And now with the US becoming increasingly hostile to the EU, the EU countries have been completely blindsided by that too.
And let's not forget, no Western nation has any reasonable intelligence presence in Israel, the culprit here, except for maybe the US and UK. Israel enjoys a disproportionate amount of intelligence asymmetry vs them.
The culprit where?
Good luck untangling who is at what level. Especially if your connection to the outside world is barely more than a needle's eye.
He was a career bureaucrat who got position after position. BND was just one of them.
The list of German politicians and bureaucrats with scandals is long, ranging from Olaf Scholz to von der Leyen. So this isn't too surprising.
When it gets to bad, you send them to retire in strassbourg
or you elect them few times so they stop nuclear to save energy.
There is no evidence of Mossad involvement. Far from me to defend Israel's spy agency but the article only mentions a possible connection to Azerbaijan.
This one doesn't since it's a US outlet and they don't have free speech in the US, on Israel-related matters. The Irish Times reported the Israel connection though.
The Irish Times reported an Israel connection regarding a separate case involving him, the Block Scandal. As far as I am aware that case did not involve giving out state secrets to other governments. This article mentions Der Spiegel which reported the investigation on the possible Azerbaijan connection.
Why would Azerbaijan care about German state secrets? :) It's either BS or they served as a proxy.
Was it the country whose name triggers automatic comment cancellation?
That's not a thing. What triggers moderation and/or banning is when accounts break the site guidelines by going into political/nationalistic/ideological flamewar, as they unfortunately often do on divisive topics.
I assume you're asking about Israel. HN Search shows about 170k comments: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... All of those are live. That's a far cry from "automatic cancellation".
If you meant some other country, it's easy enough to check this about any of them.
I think the problem is better stated as a large flagging contingent, rather than anything intrinsic to the site's code or official moderation. And the real problem is that it has an outsized chilling effect on substantive comments, which require putting in actual effort just to possibly be killed. From what I've observed comments/stories get a penalty from flags (before they actually end up [dead]) and this seems to be the actual objective - to stymie concrete discussion while a topic is popular.
edit:wrong assumption
It was Azerbaijan: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/ex-bnd-chef-hanning-s...
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It's like one of those "one last job before quiting for good but gone bad" movie plots.
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49975688
The German Roger Hollis.
I take BND less seriously since I learned they're eager to sell you merch:
https://www.bnd.shop/en
Someone downvoted you, but if you do look at the sweatshirt sales webpage, it does say this
"Licensor: Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), the German Foreign Intelligence Service
The BND logo is a registered trademark of the Bundesnachrichtendienst in Berlin, Germany. The BND is not involved in the operation, production, or sale of these products and accepts no liability. The BND does not receive any revenue from the BND Shop."
Which does seem a little bizarre.
This (paywalled) article in Süddeutsche Zeitung has a lot more background info, for instance about Hanning's Russian connections.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/hanning-festnahme-spiona...
In 2013 he was a defence witness for the oligarch Oleg Deripaska who was then tied to Putin. He was also on the board of companies such as PNB Banka (operated by a Russian Grigory Guselnikov). Also connections to many shady "security consulting" firms, among them "Prevent" who were suspected to have planted child porn with a manager of HSH-Nordbank. Incidentally child porn was also planted with the husband of Christina Block in Denmark, a case in which Hanning is also involved.
On the angle of Azerbaijan who allegedly bought Hanning's secrets it's interesting that in the past there were several court cases about corruption against German politicians. It's summarised in the so called Aserbaidschan-Affäre (Azerbaijan Affair) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aserbaidschan-Aff%C3%A4re
See also https://www.esiweb.org/proposals/caviar-diplomacy
One of the things you eventually learn is how important it is to understand how the media reports on a story. Not only what they say and how they say it but also what they don't say.
In this case, the reporting I've seen on this doesn't mention the country that he was allegedly spying for. That means it was Israel. Because if it was any other country, particularly Russia, it would absolutely be blasted from the rooftops.
It's honestly depressing how captured institutions, the media and Western governments are by the Israeli lobby. My only hope is that history will correctly label all those involved as collaborators.
Let me give an example: Jonathon Pollard [1], who was responsible for one the largest national security breaches in American history and was tried and convicted for espionage. This was a sticking point where basically every Israeli PM would ask for his release. No president would do it until Trump on his first day of his second term [2].
Trump mega-donor Sheldon Adelson lent Pollard his private plane [3] for his return to Israel where he was given a hero's welcome [4]. He's since met with the Israeli PM and even invited into the US Embassy in Israel [5].
Beyond spies, even Israelis are aware that Israel has become a refuge for the worst kinds of criminals [6].
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
[2]: https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-israel-jonathan-poll...
[3]: https://forward.com/fast-forward/461235/watch-flown-to-israe...
[4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/world/middleeast/jonathan...
[5]: https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-was-unaware-us-amb...
[6]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-03-22/ty-article/.p...
We also know it was Israel because they said it was Israel, as reported by other media from the few Western countries that don't like Israel: https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2026/10/06/former-ge...
That article doesn't say it was Israel.
> My only hope is that history will correctly label all those involved as collaborators.
Bad news, only nerds care about history.
The article says a possible connection to Azerbaijan is being investigated.
Agree with everything else you said though.
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It's weird that so many Germans are sympathetic to Russia given that they were subjugated by Russia for decades.
Can someone please explain what's going on here? What am I culturally missing?
We don’t know what country he was spying for, but we do know it’s not Russia. From the very short article: > The case does not involve Russia, according to information obtained by Sueddeutsche Zeitung.
Even "allies" spy on each other. The US has been caught, several times, spying on allies, and Israel spies on everyone.
And that's probably why Israel is allied with everyone. They have such good spies, they have endless blackmail material for politicians.
For instance, it's suspected that Epstein worked for Israel to acquire blackmail material. We know Epstein recorded everything that happened on that island, and not secretly.
Israel doesn’t really have any allies other than the United States, and even that is a one-sided relationship.
They are adversarial to everyone, but everyone who wants to maintain friendly relations with the U.S. is obliged to play nicely with Israel.
Most of Europe and especially Germany; and Oceania; and half the gulf states. And that's just the places I know of, because the news about them is in English.
[flagged]
It's in the 3rd paragraph:
The Spiegel news magazine reported late on Tuesday that investigators were pursuing a possible connection to Azerbaijan.
Ah, sorry I was thinking of 2023.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyeedd6kzdko
> A German military officer has been sentenced to three-and-a-half years in prison for spying for Russia.
It’s not sympathy so much with Russia, more of a complete distrust of US-led causes for war.
The US has betrayed a lot of humanity with the catastrophic wars it has fought since 2003. But in Europe, the results are very, very clear: many Europeans actually have the temerity to establish relations with the refugees who have been arriving for decades now, and through that contact, seek to understand that the world is being kept at war needlessly.
Many Western observers tend to miss the fact that there was a period between the end of the cold war and the beginning of the Ukraine conflict where Europeans were kind of glad to have peace in Europe - like actually with Russia being considered a part of the European community, where after years of distrust, peaceful relations between Europe and Russia were actually kind of happening.
This has all gone to /dev/null now, but there is still an unheard/heavily censored group of European citizens - in pretty much all of Europes’ western sphere - who simply would prefer to establish peaceful relations with Russia, and go back to actually flourishing and prospering.
Oh, and ending all wars on the Middle East, so the refugees from the US’ wars can rebuild their countries and go back home. Some day. Maybe.
Of course you won’t hear about them much, but if you pay close attention in the cafes and bars and riverside grills, you will hear them: many Europeans do actually believe in and want peace and simply don’t think the current crop of leaders are capable of it. So they express this not as sympathy with Russia, but as a willingness to effect the political change necessary to avoid catastrophe.
> It’s not sympathy so much with Russia, more of a complete distrust of US-led causes for war.
The ex-DDR folk has nothing to do with this. They literally want a tzar and claim the life was better in DDR (translate: got stuff for free, didn't have to do much).
Europe, and indeed Germany, is so much more than ex-DDR.
There are plenty of ex-DDR folks who think we should just get on with the war and start annihilating everyone from Dresden to Kamchatka, too.
Alas, the challenge for those who want peace is to get those who see only war to sit down and shut up for a while. Germans are actually good at that when they want to be.
Yeah, the only problem is that you can't really establish a lasting peace with a government that is more interested in land grabbing, and turning its neighbors into vassal states.
If Europe gives in to Russia in Ukraine, anyone with basic understanding of history can see that they'll turn their attention towards Baltics, Moldova and maybe Finland and Poland. Putin doesn't want to return those "good years" between cold war and Ukraine conflict, he wants to return to the glory days of Cold War when Russia (Soviet Union) was a real superpower.
Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.
On the other hand, if you think history is the only guide for humans to follow, Europe will self-implode before Russia gets there, anyway.
Fortunately, there are growing segments of European society who actually want to have a bright and prosperous future. This doesn’t happen with war - it happens by making sure your neighbors are well fed, too.
Do they want to let Russia keep Ukrainian land, kids, etc?
They want to see a return of peaceful relations between Europe and Russia, and unfortunately that would in fact mean addressing the injustices and crimes of the Ukrainian conflict - this cannot occur, while those crimes are still being committed.
But many Europeans don’t believe that Russia is going to be defeated, nor that the Donetsk->Crimea corridor is worth igniting the rest of Europe over. The most common refrain I hear, is that portion of Ukraine should have independence and neutrality, like Austria. How this is to be attained, of course nobody knows, but it is very definitely a common refrain.
From what I see here it’s a mixture of anti-Americanism, „Ostslgie“ (the longing for the good old times of the DDR, a feeling often inherited from parents) and a crap ton of Russian propaganda that floods social media.
Combine this with a step economic decline and voila you got the perfect conditions for autocratic sympathies
I would not say it's many but certainly there are some. I found it surprising that in recent sabotage or spy cases in Germany there were often Ukrainian or Latvian accomplices to the Russians. But then again it's obvious that not all Ukrainians have the same opinion about the war.
Similar to why there's a significant fraction of pro-mainland China people in Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Reasons include people who benefitted from the Soviet Union, often due to business and trade. Analogy would be Foxconn, a Taiwanese company which is dependent on manufacturing in China.
Nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses/rosy retrospection, Ostalgie in German.
Families that were ethnically from Russia, moved during the Soviet Union times and still have ties to Russia.
The former East Germany is way more pro-Russian than the former West Germany, showing the effects of these factors.
Some part of the population was subject to 60 years of continuous propaganda. That's three generations. You might say people should be able to see beyond that, but the ones influencing them were professionals too.
> It's weird that so many Germans are sympathetic to Russia given that they were subjugated by Russia for decades.
Do you think that Germany might have done something right before this "subjugation"?
Maybe 25-40 million things?
If the Holocaust were that "successful", Israel wouldn't exist today. Perhaps you're confusing with Mao.
you do know that jews were not the only targets of the nazi killing machine?
If you're including all other targets, still nowhere near 25 million. 11-17 million.
The figure that is usually talked about for the eastern front is 27 million deaths for the Soviet Union.
Are you sympathetic to MBS when you buy oil from Saudi Arabia?
I don't buy oil from Saudi Arabia. I buy gasoline from a local gas station. It doesn't say where the oil came from.
There are obviously people throughout the western world (including East Germany) who are sympathizers of Russia well beyond just buying energy from them. Pretty sure GP is referring to those people.
The are practically no sympathizers in the sense that they want to revive the Warsaw Pact. There are:
1) People who want to trade.
2) People who appreciate Russia's undeniable cultural achievements.
3) Organizations like the LaRouche Schiller institute that are most likely CIA fronts, double agents or both.
That is moving the goal posts quiet far. Being sympathetic to Russia does not require someone to want the Warsaw pact resurrected
Yes yes Vlad you are so right
There are just people who like Russian ballet and then the CIA. So long as you do not wish to recreate the Warsaw Pact, then you are not a sympathizer but just a Very Normal German
Thank you Vlad for your contribution
For the edification of the Ukrainian online hall monitor, here is the Washington Post on the value of the LaRouche network:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1985/01/15/s...
For the rest: Stop interfering with EU politics and free speech. I hope Ukraine never joins the EU, just as I hope Russia never does.
Your provided evidence of LaRouche being a CIA front is an article in which the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency orders the DIA to stop interacting with them for fear of them being a Russian front?
> Graham recalled that LaRouche associates came up with what he called good intelligence about the situation in Angola, Mozambique and elsewhere. Graham said that in the mid-1970s, he and DIA colleagues concluded that some of the information was so sensitive that they suspected the LaRouche group was getting some of it from the Soviets or another government. Graham added that he couldn't prove the contention
Hmm... what's more likely: Russian sympathizing group with connections to Russia and advocating Russian positions and disseminating intelligence of likely-Russian origin is... Russia-aligned?
No no, it must be CIA-aligned because umm... they gave info to the CIA. There are no conceivable reasons that a truly Russia-sympathizing group would want to give the CIA information, right? Lmfao
> Can someone please explain what's going on here?
Putin got'em addicted to cheap Russian gas and paid up anti nuclear NGOs who also got cash from big oil.
Also Berlin still has some Russian minority since the GDR. That includes anti Putin Russian diaspora or people that just needed a break from paranoia and brespredel.
There's a certain subset of every population that just wants to be dominated. Some of these people don't have the courage to ask their romantic partner or a professional, so they try to realize their kink through political means.