EdwardDiego 31 minutes ago

> This post introduces the Riemann integral

Sweet! I'm keen to learn about the basic fundamentals of calculus!

> For each subinterval ...(bunch of cool maths rendering I can't copy and paste because it's all comes out newline delimited on my clipboard) ... and let m<sub>k</sub> and M<sub>k</sub> denote the infimum and supremum of f on that subinterval...

Okay, guess it wasn't the kind of introduction I had assumed/hoped.

Very cool maths rendering though.

As someone who never passed high school or got a degree thanks to untreated ADHD, if anyone knows of an introduction to the basic fundamentals of calculus that a motivated but under educated maths gronk can grok, I would gratefully appreciate a link or ten.

mchinen an hour ago

I've studied the proofs before but there's still something mystical and unintuitive for me about the area under an entire curve being related to the derivative at only two points, especially for wobbly non monotonic functions.

I feel similar about the trace of a matrix being equal to the sum of eigenvalues.

Probably this means I should sit with it more until it is obvious, but I also kind of like this feeling.

  • enriquto 8 minutes ago

    > there's still something mystical and unintuitive for me about the area under an entire curve being related to the derivative

    the discrete version is much clearer to me. Suppose you have a function f(n) defined at integer positions n. Its "derivative" is just the difference of consecutive values

         f'(n) = f(n+1) - f(n)
    
    Then the fundamental theorem is just a telescopic sum:

         f(b) - f(a) = \sum_a^b f'(n)
  • ironSkillet an hour ago

    It is not determined by the derivative, it's the antiderivative, as someone else mentioned. The derivative is the rate of change of a function. The "area under a curve" of the graph of a function measures how much the function is "accumulating", which is intuitively a sum of rates of change (taken to an infinitesimal limit).

    • dalvrosa 8 minutes ago

      Thanks for bringing some intuition!

  • magicalhippo 22 minutes ago

    The antiderivative at x is defined as the area under the curve from 0 to x, which the Riemann sum gives a nice intuition for how you can get from the derivative.

    So to get the area under the curve between a and b, you calculate the area under the curve from 0 to b (antiderivative at b) and subtract the area under the curve from 0 to a (antiderivative at a).

    At least that's my sleep deprived take.

    • 1980phipsi 6 minutes ago

      I took calculus in high school and college, and I don't think any of my instructors explained the intuition as well. So sleep-deprived or not, it's a great one!

  • dalvrosa 13 minutes ago

    There is some geometric intuition in wikipedia page for this theorem you may like :)

  • sambapa an hour ago

    You meant antiderivative?

emacdona an hour ago

> f is Riemann integrable iff it is bounded and continuous almost everywhere.

FWIW, I think this is the same as saying "iff it is bounded and has finite discontinuities". I like that characterization b/c it seems more precise than "almost everywhere", but I've heard both.

I mention that because when I read the first footnote, I thought this was a mistake:

> boundedness alone ensures the subinterval infima and suprema are finite.

But it wasn't. It does, in fact, insure that infima and suprema are finite. It just does NOT ensure that it is Riemann integrable (which, of course the last paragraph in the first section mentions).

Thanks for posting. This was a fun diversion down memory lane whilst having my morning coffee.

If anyone wants a rabbit hole to go down:

Think about why the Dirichlet function [1], which is bounded -- and therefore has upper and lower sums -- is not Riemann integrable (hint: its upper and lower sums don't converge. why?)

Then, if you want to keep going down the rabbit hole, learn how you _can_ integrate it (ie: how you _can_ assign a number to the area it bounds) [2]

[1] One of my favorite functions. It seems its purpose in life is to serve as a counter example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirichlet_function

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebesgue_integral

  • mjdv an hour ago

    > FWIW, I think this is the same as saying "iff it is bounded and has finite discontinuities".

    It is not: for example, the piece-wise constant function f: [0,1] -> [0,1] which starts at f(0) = 0, stays constant until suddenly f(1/2) = 1, until f(3/4) = 0, until f(7/8) = 1, etc. is Riemann integrable.

    "Continuous almost everywhere" means that the set of its discontinuities has Lebesgue measure 0. Many infinite sets have Lebesgue measure 0, including all countable sets.

    • emacdona an hour ago

      Ah, thanks for the clarification! Would it have been accurate then to have said:

      "iff it is bounded and has countable discontinuities"?

      Or, are there some uncountable sets which also have Lebesgue measure 0?

      • jfarmer an hour ago

        No, it's really sets of measure zero. The Cantor set is an example of an uncountable set of measure 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_set

        The indicator function of the Cantor set is Riemann integrable. Like you said, though, the Dirichlet function (which is the indicator function of the rationals) is not Riemann integrable.

        The reason is because the Dirchlet function is discontinuous everywhere on [0,1], so the set of discontinuities has measure 1. The Cantor function is discontinuous only on the Cantor set.

        Likewise, the indicator function of a "fat Cantor set" (a way of constructing a Cantor-like set w/ positive measure) is not Riemann integrable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Volterra%E2%80%9...

      • ironSkillet an hour ago

        No that's not true either. A quick Google will reveal many examples, in particular the "Cantor set".

      • thaumasiotes an hour ago

        The Cantor set is uncountable and has Lebesgue measure 0.

  • jfarmer an hour ago

    "Almost everywhere" means "everywhere except on a set of measure 0", in the Lebesgue measure sense.

    Here's an example of a Riemann integrable function w/ infinitely many discontinuities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomae%27s_function

    Anyone interested in this should check out the Prologue to Lebesgue's 1901 paper: http://scratchpost.dreamhosters.com/math/Lebesgue_Integral.p...

    It gives several reasons why we "knew" the Riemann integral wasn't capturing the full notion of integral / antiderivative

  • bandrami an hour ago

    "Almost everywhere" is precisely defined, and it is broader than that. E.g. the real numbers are almost everywhere normal, but there are uncountably many non-normal numbers between any two normal reals.

  • sambapa an hour ago

    "almost everywhere" can mean the curve has countably infinite number of discontinuities

  • Jaxan an hour ago

    “Almost everywhere” is a mathematical term and can mean two things (I think):

    - except finitely many, or

    - except a set of measure zero.

    • dalvrosa 10 minutes ago

      Here is used in the Lebesgue measure theory sense

bikrampanda 2 hours ago

What is the font used on the site?

shmoil 35 minutes ago

Good job, David. Have a lollipop. Now learn & write up the proof that the Henstock-Kurzweil integral integrates _every_ derivative. This is what we had in my calculus class on top of the outdated Riemann integral.