joshcsimmons 5 hours ago

This isn't for introverts its intended for people with social anxiety, they're different things. Introverts don't necessarily dislike networking they just need recharge time afterwards.

At any rate it doesn't address the core concept. Anyone with anxiety (raises hand) will tell you that the worse thing you can do is care MORE about the thing you're anxious about, yet you've prescribed a bunch of rituals for someone to perform so that they do "well".

The best way to network well is to stop giving a shit about doing it well.

  • eslaught 5 hours ago

    Recently I was introduced to the distinction between anxiety and dread. Anxiety is, essentially, a form of fear. You fear a worst-case consequence that isn't actually that likely. If you put up with your anxiety and just go and do the thing (on average) you'll do just fine, or at least ok-ish. Over time your body learns that the anxious activity is ok and the anxiety is reduced.

    Dread is different. Dread is the expectation of a bad situation. It's not a worst-case scenario, it's a typical scenario. If what you are experiencing is dread, then pushing yourself into that situation will confirm to your body that, yup, it really is as bad as you thought, and will amplify the dread rather than diminish it.

    A classic example is that certain forms of neurodivergence create sensory overload in typical "social" environments. This is likely to result in dread rather than anxiety. Your body is literally telling you that this situation is problematic, and repeat exposure isn't going to improve anything.

    In our modern culture the language of anxiety is widespread but the language of dread much less so, and I think that's unfortunate because a lot of advice centers around "just get over it", which works only if what you're experiencing is anxiety. Personally, learning about this gave me permission to do "social" activities on my own terms and stop worrying about what other people think "social" means; turns out the social anxiety I had was relatively minimal and what I was experiencing was mostly the dread from environments where social activities often occur.

    • xlii 2 hours ago

      TIL!

      I always joked that there’s nothing to fear about travel over plane. Nothing will fall, nothing will crash. The true horror is spending X hours without movement and a 2 day back pain afterwards.

      Seems that I rarely experience anxiety but I do experience dread more often.

      What you’re describing is my own self-developed strategy to deal with various stuff. Need to research dread topic more.

    • shayway 5 hours ago

      Thank you for passing this on. I've been circling the concept but haven't ever heard it pinned down. One often comes with the other so it's difficult to separate the two, but at the same time the strategies needed to overcome / deal with them are very distinct.

    • noman-land 3 hours ago

      There's definitely a "get over it" for dread and it's called stoicism (not an expert). Sometimes you have to do things whether you like it or not just to survive and "getting over it" will prevent you from dying.

      • crooked-v 2 hours ago

        Trying to just "get over it" with the neurodivergence example noticed is the kind of thing likely to result in a panic attack or other uncontrollable expression of emotion. It's not something you can change just by wanting it hard enough.

      • ball_of_lint 2 hours ago

        Even if this was true for neurotypicals (which it isn't) it wouldn't be true for neurodivergent folk.

        Can you hold a conversation next to a lawnmower? A jackhammer? A jet engine? At some point there's literally too much noise for you to communicate verbally anymore. That point is different for different people.

      • hhh 2 hours ago

        come on man telling someone with autism to learn stoicism and just got care

    • goopypoop 4 hours ago

      Does the sore head dread beat the sobriety anxiety?

    • tootie 4 hours ago

      Introversion has nothing to do with anxiety or dread. They are orthogonal concepts.

      • bluefirebrand 3 hours ago

        You're not entirely wrong, but I don't think they are entirely orthogonal either.

        There is almost certainly a significant overlap between introversion and social anxiety/dread, even if they aren't 1:1 related

        If nothing else, many people with a lot of social anxiety will claim they are simply introverts in order to cover for their anxiety

  • pj_mukh 4 hours ago

    Also FWIW, this is also not a guide to networking. It’s a guide to attending networking events. Those are not the same things.

    I wish someone would write a guide to what to do in the 2 weeks after the networking event when inevitably everyone forgets about each other.

  • clickety_clack 3 hours ago

    “The best way to network well is to stop giving a shit about doing it well” is a quote for the ages.

  • strken 5 hours ago

    I don't think it's intended for people with social anxiety either. I'm not socially anxious, but I could definitely benefit from following up on conversations from parties more often.

  • dartharva 5 hours ago

    No, this is intended for everyone, but the purpose is wrong.

    Leil Lowndes' How to talk to anyone (the source) is not explicitly about expanding your network. It's just guidelines (or rather suggestions, or even better - hacks) on how you can start and hold conversations with people. What you choose to do with them is your own purview.

  • tootie 4 hours ago

    I think a lot of people really don't get this. I relish alone time and rarely seek out contact. But I also used to do sales pitches and attend conferences and was never uncomfortable no matter how unfamiliar the crowd. I just found it really tiring.

GianFabien 5 hours ago

I would like to add one tip that works well for me.

First time is always very difficult. Identify recurring or comparable events. Over time you will meet some people you already know. Remembering some details from earlier encounters will build rapport. Likewise people will remember you from previous encounters. But, beware of the trap of only talking with those whom you already know. For every event, target to form at least a couple of new connections.

  • papertigerau 5 hours ago

    This is a great point on the value of recurring events! Multiple serendipitous / unplanned interactions (where both people leave feeling good) are an important pathway to building a relationship. As a child most of your friendships were a function of proximity & chance - school and community events provided opportunities for regular (but unplanned) interaction.

    Recurring events make it easier to meet others, and the regular, repeated interactions help form stronger connections.

    Over time it also deepens your options of people to move around room for conversation - which is a nice way to break out of being awkwardly stuck in a 1:1 conversation for too long.

    "Follow me so I can introduce you to Bob" is a way kinder way to exit a 1:1 than "I'm going to get another drink/visit the bathroom" and leaving them standing alone.

    • agcat 5 hours ago

      I loved the last suggestion, this has happened to me so many times and mostly i end up abruptly excusing myself. "Follow me so i can introduce you to xxx" is a great advice. Can i add this advice to the blog?

      • papertigerau 4 hours ago

        Please do!

        I learned this one during a period at work when I was the host of 10+ large events per week and I needed to move around the room. Spending more than a few minutes in any one conversation was a problem and so I landed on this as the best way to break away without creating awkwardness for the other person.

        Key to the "follow me" strategy is to just start walking - 99% of time they will follow you rather than stand there alone. If you know them well enough / the context is OK then a light touch on the shoulder / elbow to point them in the right direction also helps.

        The flip of this is that if YOU don't know anyone else in the room then ask them something like "do you know anyone else here?" / "have you spoken to anyone else interesting at this event?" - usually that provides a pathway to someone new and you say "Great! Can you please introduce them to me?"

  • agcat 5 hours ago

    This is a great point. While i was reading the book, this tip was shared too with an example of a person who would make notes on the visiting cards of that specific person so that next time if she bumps into them again, they would have a talking point.

npinsker 6 hours ago

Confidence and genuine interest can’t be taught. Unfortunately, they also can’t be faked. Humans have evolved to be hyper-aware of what others’ mannerisms and behaviors convey, and most socially adept people can sniff out a “networker” in less than a minute. The only way forward is practice — talk to people, be awkward and fail a lot, learn to care about others’ life and work, and express it (or talk about your own interests!) in a way that adds value to their life.

  • bluefirebrand 3 hours ago

    It maybe cannot be faked, but it can be practiced and one of the best ways to practice something is by faking it

    You might not be able to convince people on your first attempt, but eventually you can build this skill if you try

nine_k 5 hours ago

BTW one way to break the ice is to go a bit meta. Imagine saying: "Hello! My name is ${name}, nice to see you! One of my favorite ice-breaker questions is: ${some_question}. What do you think?"

It evokes smiles, it allows the other party to answer the question, share their own question, discuss the process of getting into a friendly conversation, etc, all without being formulaic.

  • noman-land 3 hours ago

    How is this not formulaic when you literally used a formula to describe it? With variables and all. It's not bad but pretty contrived and clearly rehearsed and kinda corny. People smile when someone makes a bad pun also.

    • rpozarickij 23 minutes ago

      It might feel less formulaic because it's more upfront. Following a formula without telling the other person about it can feel more robotic if you don't put your soul into it. Whereas you can still put in the right energy and effort into the OP's approach to make it work well. At the end of the day being human IMHO is what matters most.

      > People smile when someone makes a bad pun also

      Here too I think it's all about how the pun is delivered.

CompoundEyes 5 hours ago

Two conversation tools I regularly use: “What are you currently obsessed with?” and if you want to follow up on even dull things a “What surprised you most about that?” works great. I don’t like small talk this helps get right to the novel, weird, and unique so I can at least enjoy the conversation and get to the core of who I’m really talking to. These help.

  • SoftTalker 5 hours ago

    I hate that question. And the similar "what are you passionate about?"

    Well, I'm not currently obsessed with anything. Where does the conversation go from there?

    • MrDrMcCoy 2 hours ago

      Long-term fixation, colloquially referred to as "obsession", is fairly common to various forms of neurodivergance, and neurodivergance is fairly common for engineering-adjacent folks. Since that forms a likely large cross section of the HN crowd, the suggested icebreaker is probably relevant to many of us, whether we are ourselves neurodivergant or otherwise frequently interact with those who are. I also dislike the "passion" question, but obsessions change frequently enough and are exciting to the person asked. It's just different enough to liven up the conversation if you're asking the right person.

      > Where does the conversation go from there?

      I dunno, maybe try asking a neurodivergant person sometime? I certainly would rather be asked about my obsessions than my passions, as my passions are all too often left to rot for one reason or another, which just makes me sad and want to leave.

    • kulahan 2 hours ago

      Asking something like this can also be a filter. If someone reacts in mild frustration to such a minor interaction at a networking event (or at least, while actively trying to network), it's a red flag.

    • servercobra 3 hours ago

      Honestly, probably nowhere and a shortened conversation, then I go find someone else to chat with.

1shooner 7 hours ago

I consider myself an introvert, and this article seems like an impossible anxiety spiral-inducing checklist.

>Don’t waste their time with “Great party.” Say something more vivid. “The lighting is perfect.”

What? I think someone needing this level of instruction would be better served by basic mindfulness and small, manageable exercises in active listening or empathetic dialog, rather than a grab bag of non-contextual tips like this.

  • pjscott 5 hours ago

    I’m also introverted, and I also found this article overwhelming – if I tried to do it all at once, which seems so laughably unrealistic for me that I just wouldn’t try. Instead, probably the best way to read this is as something to approach gradually. Try just one thing on the list, or two if you’re feeling ambitious. Go for a delta that you can manage. And see if it’s working for you, because often the advice that works wonders for one person completely falls flat for another.

    (On a slightly funny personal note, the thing that helped me most with social skills was watching the first few seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my first year of college. The actors emoted so clearly that even I could understand what feelings they were trying to convey, and that’s how I learned to do body language and appropriate vocal tones. This took me from unapproachable to merely awkward, a huge step up in the world.)

  • brightmood 6 hours ago

    That's ableist. What if they have Autism or the likes???

    • GoatOfAplomb 6 hours ago

      I don't understand how that is ableist. Would you be willing to explain your rationale?

      • brightmood 6 hours ago

        That part

        > What? I think someone needing this level of instruction would be better served by basic mindfulness and small, manageable exercises in active listening or empathetic dialog, rather than a grab bag of non-contextual tips like this.

        Look, when you say "someone needing this level of instruction," it comes across like needing detailed, step-by-step help is weird or a problem. But plenty of people with ADHD, autism, or other brain differences don't just find this helpful - they actually need it to make sense of things.

        And suggesting they'd be "better off" with mindfulness or simpler stuff? That assumes they haven't already been down that road. Maybe those approaches just don't click with how their brain works.

        Calling it a "grab bag of random tips" really undersells what's going on here. For people who need things spelled out clearly and directly, those specific tips might be the difference between something being useless and actually doable.

        The whole thing reads like it's written from the perspective of someone who finds this stuff obvious, then judges other approaches as somehow inferior. That's the ableist part - acting like there's one "right" way to understand things and anything else is just... less good.

        • laserlight 3 hours ago

          > when you say "someone needing this level of instruction," it comes across like needing detailed, step-by-step help is weird or a problem

          That wasn't my impression at all, to give another perspective. "This level" indicates me that instructions are too specific or too detailed to be of any help.

      • npinsker 6 hours ago

        Reads to me as a coy insult towards the author (or those who would benefit from this piece), not as a serious concern.

mzajc 7 hours ago

Between the structure, the doubly-phrased headings, the machine generated picture, and regrettably the em dashes, this really reads like LLM slop. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but if that's the case, please just hand out the prompt instead next time.

  • brightmood 6 hours ago

    Some peoples writing style is just like that. As somebody who gets this regularly, I find that it is really disrespecting my efforts.

  • readthenotes1 5 hours ago

    I thought it was funny that the things that were meant to be emphasized are unreadable in dark mode.

    • brightmood 4 hours ago

      Unrelated to the thread, but yes. Had the same issue.

SCAQTony 6 hours ago

When I read posts like this, or watch introverts doing comedy skits about their introversion, such as KallMeKris saying she needs 10 days in advance just to schedule a phone call. As an extrovert, I don't want to inflict angst upon an introvert just by striking up a conversation or inviting them to lunch. I cut off two "friends" who were introverts, and I don't think they noticed. Human kind is a social animal that expects reciprocation and teamwork.

  • SoftTalker 5 hours ago

    Inviting an introvert to lunch with you is likely fine and would be appreciated.

    Inviting an introvert to a group lunch with six other people would likely cause angst.

    And yes, the introvert probably didn't notice. They probably don't often think about you either.

  • strken 5 hours ago

    I get this. It sounds superficially like you're doing something wrong, but if you "cut someone off" by just not inviting them to stuff and then they either don't notice or don't make any attempt to reconnect with you, it means you were doing 100% of the work in the relationship. You've been putting in effort to drag them along to events they don't show any indication of enjoying, when they won't reciprocate in any way or ever make the first move, and that can be emotionally draining.

    I'm not particularly extroverted and being organised doesn't come naturally to me either, so this type of thing is even more of a nuisance. I'm putting in effort to set up fun things to do using calendars and spreadsheets and research, I'm making notes about interests and mutual friends, and the other person can't even set up a two month calendar event then write "Hey, let's get coffee"?

    • SCAQTony 4 hours ago

      I cut these two off because I felt I was bothering them.

  • laserlight 2 hours ago

    > As an extrovert, I don't want to inflict angst upon an introvert

    > Human kind is a social animal that expects reciprocation

    Sounds to me like you did it for yourself, after all.

globalnode 6 hours ago

what about just owning your own lack of confidence as a strength? performative confidence seems dishonest and a bit like cheating to me. also on that matter, why is confidence == good?

  • pier25 5 hours ago

    > why is confidence == good?

    Speaking from experience as an introvert who suffered social anxiety...

    A lot of people (probably extroverts) don't respond well when you're expressing anxiety and/or doubt. Clients won't want to work with you. People won't want to be around you at parties. Co-workers will speak behind your back about the weird person. Etc.

  • foobarbecue 6 hours ago

    The goal isn't to fake it. The goal is to build actual confidence. That doesn't mean being loud or funny, just learning how to communicate without panicking.

  • JonChesterfield 6 hours ago

    Introversion is not lack of confidence.

    And confidence is good because it's a signal of competence, or at least that things have gone well for you in the past in similar situations.

  • cyberax 6 hours ago

    A lot of introverts are quite likely to be somewhere on the autism spectrum.

    For example, I can't unconsciously read expressions. I scored worse than blind guessing on the "Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test". So I consciously learned to read and mimic expressions, literally using a textbook for theater performers. So now I can score at the upper range of neurotypical people.

    Other introverts often have problems recognizing social cues or initiating conversations. Purely because it's not _natural_ for them, even though they might _want_ to actually speak to people.

    So is it kind of performative? Yes. But think about this, extroverts are doing a lot of same tricks subconsciously. Does it mean that they're _always_ performing?

    • SCAQTony 5 hours ago

      That was the word everyone is afraid to say: Autism

  • dartharva 5 hours ago

    All confidence is performative confidence bro

tt_dev 6 hours ago

Practical tips - thanks!

I like the idea of baiting with a “whatzit” item

  • JLO64 5 hours ago

    For me I typically go with whatever fountain pen I'm carrying with me. It's also really easy to introduce it into the conversation since I can demonstrate it while jotting down a piece of info someone is sharing.

  • eadmund 6 hours ago

    > I like the idea of baiting with a “whatzit” item

    Me too! I can’t believe that I never thought of it before, but it makes perfect sense.

    • agcat 5 hours ago

      Great you found it helpful!